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+---Topic: Pump It Up Pro 2? started by valius
Posted by: valius on 13:04 CST :: 10/26/2009
Hmmm, according to this, there's supposedly a play test for Pump It Up Pro 2:
< http://www.piu-pro.com/ >
I wonder if this is for real, since I've seen that BGA on Jason Dread's machine.
Posted by: WaltCip on 13:56 CST :: 10/26/2009
I'm not expecting it to receive the most positive of reactions on this forum, but I'd be interested to see how this turns out. I remember watching a video of Jason backdooring custom songs into Pro 1... maybe this will have custom songs too?
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 14:44 CST :: 10/26/2009
Oh, it's confirmed? So I can spill the beans.
DM Ashura tried to convince me to hop on the Pro bandwagon a long while back when for some reason he admitted to me that this game was in development. A bunch of his songs are in it. At that point, Kyle Ward's were not.
I frowned even despite the latter sentence.
EDIT: those screenshots better not be it because the game looks EXACTLY the same.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 14:45 CST :: 10/26/2009
You say that as if we don't have a right to them.
Posted by: WaltCip on 14:49 CST :: 10/26/2009
I say that as if it was part and parcel.
Edit: To clarify, I don't mind whether or not you like the game. I just know that this forum is the least receptive to Pro among all of the ones that I've been to.
Posted by: valius on 15:54 CST :: 10/26/2009
Unless this game wants to tank, it'd better NOT have custom songs. Giving the user the means to never NEED a new mix again is not a good business model, even if the user/consumer benefits the greatest out of it. Prexceeds were bad enough as is, don't give those people more power.
And it's hard to be really receptive to a game that used to steal away sales from regular PIU back when it first came out.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 16:30 CST :: 10/26/2009
I know nothing about the game other than it's ITG 3 in Pump form. Looking at the screens, my only opinion is that the arrows are so small on the screen, so far away from the edges of the screen, and so far away from eachother. If it was like that in the first pro, then that sucks. Superb? That word sounds like it's below perfect in terms of hierarchy. I'm also guessing superb equals perfect. And I want to know this. Is there a way to fix the colors of the arrows to NORMAL? I would not beable to play with them changing colors. Back in DDR, I would always put a mod on to keep the arrows all the same color instead of having them color coded according to when the step is, or always changing colors. This is because I played Pump for 2 years before hearing of or seeing a DDR machine, and I prefered the Pump style of how the arrows look. If that was not the case for Pro, then it should be for Pro 2. I guess I would not dislike Pro as much if I could do that.
I also have a strange feeling that every real Pump song will be removed, and the game will consist entirely of ITG/PRO songs. I say this, because Turkey said a while back that the 5 ITG songs in NX2/NXA are likely to be removed because they are no longer free. Basically, same hardware, totally different software.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 16:55 CST :: 10/26/2009
Pro 1 had the same look with the arrows and colors, nothing new. Those screenshots make Pro 2 look like the EXACT same game.
According to Ward and company, P/G/G/B/M are all the same as in regular Pump, with the fruity "superb" as a stricter level above "perfect". And yes, you can set it to have the arrows like in regular Pump, but it still doesn't look authentic at all.
I don't think Pump songs will be excluded. And I think you may have taken what I said out of context about them being "free". However, I ABSOLUTELY would prefer they excluded Pump songs so as to make it at least slightly a different product to arcade vendors. I'm not in the mood to hear about clueless distributors and arcades thinking that Pro is an "upgrade" and the "new version" over the regular Pump series again.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 17:13 CST :: 10/26/2009
Worse than that, it actually WAS used to steal sales from Pump.
I totally don't mind it as a game (5-panel on the Stepmania engine isn't THAT comfortable to me, but that's debatable depending on how you like to play) - I just really don't want it to pass itself off as real Pump when it's clearly not the same game.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 17:57 CST :: 10/26/2009
Wait a minute so this isn't Pump it up Protocol? wait hold on those screenshots look like it's being played on Pro 1?
Ok i am confused please someone fill me in what's going on
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 19:01 CST :: 10/26/2009
That explains Kyle Ward stating he may not be in the next PIU game.
Er... I'm a bit skeptical if it is DM Ashura. I mean we have all heard his songs already for the most part and while some are ok, the BIG problem is that everyone and their mother has simmed his stuff.
Now the only thing I really want to see is more Marathons than 1's. I mean I'd love to script a few myself but if they already have a set team to make them then I really do want to see more scripted courses. It is one of the only reasons I enjoyed ITG.
However, looking at the pictures, that "ANGERFACE IS NOT AMUSED" is the only random BGA in Pro and plays whenever it is a song that doesn't have a BGA. Since Pro 1 had songs with BGAs this was basically a joke for those that would end up pirating this and playing it with custom songs on their PCs (which was inevitable and DID happen regardless). I think the add-on install pretty much shows they are actually testing these out.
Hopefully they add a lot more to do than the first. I mean I would have enjoyed the first if it weren't so... empty. Like I barely scratched the surface of it and I was already done with it. The Marathons issue would make it better for me but I guess we shall see?
Posted by: AssassinYCO on 19:44 CST :: 10/26/2009
I don't understand why PIU Pro gets negative feedback. I've played PIU Pro, and yeah, it was a bit different. Still, It's PIU with some ITG songs.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 22:11 CST :: 10/26/2009
That right there is the first issue with what's wrong with it.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 22:33 CST :: 10/26/2009
That's actually not how I feel (and I actually wouldn't mind that too much, if the song selection were really judicious).
I feel it's more like ITG and Stepmania on a 5-panel cabinet with Pump songs. It just doesn't feel right. Besides, most of the Pro-exclusive charts are kind of sloppy and don't flow well.
Bottom line is, I don't dislike it because of the concept itself; I dislike because it doesn't work well and it doesn't feel good.
Posted by: luciusxx on 01:46 CST :: 10/27/2009
I'd like to see how they make the stepcharts for his songs
DM Ashura's name popping up is the only thing that interests me now.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 10:49 CST :: 10/27/2009
If anything, this will probably come out in one of the following options from most to least expensive:
Full Upgrade kit with panel board
Software upgrade (a la encore pack)
I wish they could do something like the software upgrade method with standard pump. It'd save some money.
Pro was an attempt to bring some of the ITG players away from their R21 retard rodeo. It's a decent enough game. I'm glad to hear that The Space Pumpkin isn't involved beyond a few licensed songs for the "sequel".
P.S. How many Pro locations ended up in the United States? Wasn't it something like 30, with most of those going to high ITG dominant areas?
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 10:54 CST :: 10/27/2009
30 locations that were branded as Pump locations, using Pump cabinets, and weren't Pump games at all.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 11:07 CST :: 10/27/2009
This makes me wish Renard's music was in this just for this song.
Posted by: WaltCip on 12:44 CST :: 10/27/2009
Yeehaw's point was that the cabinets were in ITG-heavy areas, where by association there would be a high number of ITG-style players. And if I remember correctly, one of the primary complaints against Pro was that it was 4-panel style charts on 5-panel pads.
Like attracts like.
Here in Florida, the Pump Pro population compared to the number of Pumpamiro machines is practically nil, mainly due to the lack of ITG machines. In fact, the one Pump Pro machine I saw in the state was back-to-back with an ITG2 cabinet.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 15:58 CST :: 10/27/2009
Walt got my point pretty much dead on. Itg heavy places basically weren't going to touch anything tangentially related to pump otherwise. Now pump is at least in their mind space.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 02:35 CST :: 10/28/2009
No it isn't. That style of gameplay and music is in their mind space. That's why those machines appeared (and may have been successful) in those markets in the first place. ITG3 would have been a bigger success in those places than Pro had it existed.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 08:20 CST :: 10/28/2009
During the summer I play down Wildwood on a Pump Pro machine that is sandwiched between two ITG2 machines. I didn't like Pro at first but it grew on me and it also had some older songs that had been removed from the regular Pump versions, which I liked. The machine is in perfect condition, the pads are great, the bars are great, and the volume is usually up really loud. In other words, this is a great location to play (if you don't mind Pro).
I never played ITG before playing Pump (I actually started out playing DDR years ago but then switched to Pump and have preferred it since). I actually like the ITG songs that are in Pro and I also like the stepcharts for the most part. I would be happy to play on any good Pump machine, but you take what you can get. Also, there are still a lot of the great regular Pump songs in Pro. I will say that if they didn't have these, then I wouldn't like Pro that much. I love the songs and charts from all the Pump versions.
I do understand why people here don't like Pro and that it possibly did take some business away from the regular Pump versions, although Pump imo is so unpopular in the U.S. anyway that it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. Perhaps the locations that got the Pro machines would never have considered or purchased NXA at all, but that's just speculation on my part.
I have seen a lot of ITG players get into Pump via Pro, not that this is going to make any difference at all to the game's popularity in the U.S., as it's just not going to matter much. Sadly, Pump is just not popular in the U.S., although you can't walk five feet without tripping over a DDR machine
I think if you're into Pump but you dislike/hate Pro and never play it, I wouldn't say you're missing so much. For the people that are into Pro and dislike/hate the regular Pump versions (no one here I'm sure), I would say they're missing a great deal of course. For my part, I just wish Pump in general was more popular in the U.S. and that it would be easy to find good machines anywhere.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 11:08 CST :: 10/28/2009
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 13:00 CST :: 10/28/2009
Ok, let's just stop this here before it devolves into anything dumber. Pro did what it was intended to do, and it did it with Andamiro's blessling. Pro 2 will be fractionally as successful as whatever AM version is coming out will be, just like Pro was against NX/NX2.
Posted by: Kuhazan on 17:02 CST :: 10/28/2009
I just view it as this thing has less content than normal cheaper choice. Why should I buy?
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 20:38 CST :: 10/28/2009
If Pump is popular in the U.S., then I guess it must be another part of the U.S. I'm from the Northeast, NJ specifically, and there are maybe two or three Pump machines within an hour and half drive from me, allthough I can go to any arcade within 5 minutes of my place and easily find a DDR machine at every single one
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 21:07 CST :: 10/28/2009
It's just your part of the country. For example, in New Orleans Pump machines are everywhere yet DDR machines are rare. Though to be fair the United States as a whole isn't a "Pump country".
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 23:56 CST :: 10/28/2009
I'm in Florida, and unless you go to like Orlando or busy areas you aren't going to find a DDR machine with ease.
Posted by: FLAKK on 00:48 CST :: 10/29/2009
That is a hacked cab, btw. The BGA is the giveaway.
Posted by: WayneC02 on 00:50 CST :: 10/29/2009
I'm not sure if this was answered because I don't care enough to read anything but the reason it looks the same is because they're obviously just testing the new Pro 2 songs on a Pro cab, loading them in as addon data (the first shot in that group of 3). The final theme and graphics most likely aren't finished and they don't want to give it away yet.
I still haven't played a Pro so, while I'm pretty much done with Pump as a whole, I'd give that and this (if it comes to fruition) a try.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 02:01 CST :: 10/29/2009
Yeah, chances are they are testing the steps in an arcade setting for feedback.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 10:40 CST :: 10/29/2009
I should move, lol.
Once again, I should move, lol. Florida sounds good to me, I've never been a fan of cold weather either.
Posted by: FSX on 05:53 CST :: 11/03/2009
This is probably a super-preliminary test, judging by the look of things. However, that song and its graphics don't really seem to fit Pump Pro, so I am somewhat suspicious...
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 12:32 CST :: 11/04/2009
Ok I wasn't the only one to notice the song.
Not because of what it is but due to licensing. IIRC it is on the same label as Less Than Three is, which is on DDR Universe 3.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 20:09 CST :: 11/08/2009
Hey Wayne! Quit being so awesome.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 21:52 CST :: 11/08/2009
they really need to fix the stepcharting because I felt that a lot of Pro 1 charts had bad steps. It looked like the team tried to convert ITG 4-panel songs to 5-panel which led to extremely awkward charts.
Posted by: FSX on 16:50 CST :: 11/09/2009
Chris Foy was a bad 4-panel stepper who had never made 5-panel steps before, and he made tons of the charts.
Posted by: valius on 17:07 CST :: 11/09/2009
Playing through most of the Pro-exclusive CZ charts... most of them are not enjoyable (to me). Esparanza CZ
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 17:10 CST :: 11/09/2009
ALIENS IN OUR MIDST
Posted by: Thanh on 18:27 CST :: 11/09/2009
Summer Speedy Mix and Hasse Mich = <3
Posted by: WaltCip on 18:43 CST :: 11/09/2009
I hated that CZ chart. Most unimaginative piece of shit ever. I may be partial to Pro, but I just don't see how people like that chart. God, the 4-panel version was much better. Hell, MY version is better (shameless plug).
I think Jason Dread ought to step most of the songs in Pro 2.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 18:46 CST :: 11/09/2009
As much as I don't care for him as a person, you're probably right.
He's the only one from that team who knows what he's doing charting 5-panel.
Posted by: valius on 19:15 CST :: 11/09/2009
Thirded, as long as it doesn't look like VVV (which it probably won't)
Also Summer = Needlessly hard for what the song is, though I suppose, that's a good thing for you Thanh, considering your skill level
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:40 CST :: 11/09/2009
He made that?
ok nevermind, he's turned to the sucky dark side. Forget what I said.
Posted by: valius on 19:50 CST :: 11/09/2009
Or at least I remember it being so.
This is his most recent work I've seen:
< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLPYDlrnOn0 >
< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwvee0QOMwg >
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:57 CST :: 11/09/2009
It sounds like he's firing an automatic gun when he plays. wtff
Agreed with Mills on Do It looking like an ITG chart.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 20:35 CST :: 11/09/2009
Gotta agree with you here. If people like the chart, it's because they also like the song. I like it too...in fact I really think they dropped the ball on it with the chart. It's a prime example of 5-panel put into the wrong hands.
And yeah, if anybody can breathe life into the Pro charts by giving them a better feel for Pump, it'd probably be JD. If he WANTS to, of course...he's certainly got the capacity, but not the drive.
Posted by: Thanh on 21:38 CST :: 11/09/2009
I just like fast streaming without turns D:
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 22:03 CST :: 11/09/2009
Yeah, even when it's brainless spam like Summer.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 00:46 CST :: 11/10/2009
He did all the VVV charts IIRC, but I do remember either the FS or Half-Double chart actually being fun for what it was.
Posted by: luciusxx on 01:00 CST :: 11/10/2009
Fucking VVV =.=
I can't pass that chart, ever.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 02:44 CST :: 11/10/2009
Are we talking about the CZ/NM or the easier charts?
Because the CZ/NM are supposed to be mind-numbingly dumb/hard.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 02:46 CST :: 11/10/2009
Hey, JD may have moved on from VVV, so let's not bash him for water under the bridge. His more recent projects really are a lot cleaner, and they fit Pro's engine nicely. Kind of makes me wish he'd still take more of what he learned about Pump patterns and charts and apply them to Pro, but at least these charts are not bad.
He'd never admit VVV was a bad chart, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know it is.
Posted by: luciusxx on 08:14 CST :: 11/10/2009
I mean the CZ and NM.
HOWEVER, Steven, the only other guy my equal in Singapore (feels overly-arrogant =.=), can fucking Full Combo the CZ.
VVV is the only chart I'll ever use so many F-bombs on.
STEVEN CAN FULL-COMBO THIS SHIT!!!
And I can't =(
I still won't admit he is better than me, because he can't play Freestyle or Nightmare charts for shit.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 12:15 CST :: 11/10/2009
How does the Pro team get to use Full songs from NXA? do they pay a small fee or something? and since when since did they get to use full songs? (Boy have i missed a lot)
Also am i the only one that thinks VVV sounds like noise rather then music?
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 12:39 CST :: 11/10/2009
I was actually defending him for the FS/Half-Double charts for it.
Those are just charts he made for the heck of it.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 19:14 CST :: 11/10/2009
I agree with a lot of what's been said here, as some of the charts in Pro are crappy, but there are some good ones. I never liked songs where they make the steps artificially difficult or gimmicky and that don't go with the music well. I don't really like the use of hands or mines and rolls, but they're not overly used in Pro and there's only a handful of songs that have a lot of hands in them (I don't normally play those songs). I would definitely say in general that the quality of the charts are so much better in the regular Pump versions than what's found in Pro, but maybe they'll do better with the sequel.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 13:18 CST :: 11/11/2009
The story he told me behind that was that what ended up in the game for VVV CZ was something like the 8th revision of the chart.
Dread would do a chart for it (I've seen the initial one, it was very pump styled), then Kyle Ward would see it and tell him to make it harder.
After the x - 1 revision, Dread just said "fuck it" and made the abomination we have now. He hates it, and he hates Kyle for esentially telling him to make it.
Posted by: WaltCip on 15:32 CST :: 11/11/2009
Oh, my, that is depressing. I wonder if this happened to any of the other Pro songs?
It actually reminds me of what they did to Fascination Maxx's Oni chart in DDR. It doesn't follow anything in the song. It just feels like somebody was yelling "make it harder, make it harder" at an already bewildered step charter.
Save the bullshit steps for songs that deserve hard charts, unless you're intentionally making a lolwtf file (myfuckingadventure, anyone?).
Posted by: valius on 16:25 CST :: 11/11/2009
Yeah, that's depressing If they do a Pro 2, I hope that the stepmakers won't be forced into a policy like that.
And I hear Chris Foy is no longer with AM anyway? Maybe that would help the game?
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 02:47 CST :: 11/12/2009
Because forcing boss songs is mandatory in dancing games.
It took until, what, MAX 300 before DDR introduced boss songs for singles, and whichever mix introduced the Genom Screams Double Heavy I guess. I'm not too knowledgeable on music game history.
Posted by: WaltCip on 10:56 CST :: 11/12/2009
You could argue Chimera's steps were a forced boss song, but at least with those steps you could look at it and go "wow." At least, that's how it is to me. It's all entirely subjective.
Genom Screams Double Heavy was introduced in DDR Extreme, I believe. That chart should be a 9, it's that easy.
And there's plenty of ways to make boss songs just by following the music and not going over-the-top with the steps. I think Winter is proof of that.
Posted by: Baro on 16:11 CST :: 11/12/2009
Another Pump Pro, another game I'm not making charts for.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 16:48 CST :: 11/12/2009
There's nothing wrong with creating a song that calls for intense, insane steps (Chimera calls for it, although I'll admit it takes it a bit too far - its Another steps should've been its normal steps), but it's not excusable to make an unmelodic spastic piece of shit that sounds less like music than grindcore and make steps that are worse than the song.
I feel a bit of sympathy for Dread after hearing that story, but not completely since I recall in the past that he defended that song as being anything more than "terrible".
Posted by: Baro on 16:54 CST :: 11/12/2009
I would pay money to have my music in a Pro game xD
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 17:22 CST :: 11/12/2009
Which is in a way strangely silly considering Stepmania is free and open source.
Posted by: FSX on 17:35 CST :: 11/12/2009
I sort of disagree. The first boss song in DDR was Afronova, and I'd say that the first boss song in Pump was Will 'O the Wisp. All a "boss song" is is a hard song that makes players at the time that the song comes out go "Woah!"
Posted by: WaltCip on 18:44 CST :: 11/12/2009
If we're counting Rebirth as a legitimate mix, you're probably right. Otherwise, I hold that the first boss song was FAE1.
Edit: Or Mr. Larpus FS.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 18:50 CST :: 11/12/2009
The first boss songs were Ignition Starts and Hypnosis.
Then in 2nd: Extravaganza
Then in 3rd: She Likes Pizza
Then in SE: Mr. Larpus
Then in PC: Slam
Then in Extra: Trash Man, Holiday, and Can Can since they individually unlocked.
Posted by: WaltCip on 18:53 CST :: 11/12/2009
The hardest song in the game doesn't necessarily indicate a boss song, at least by Cpubasic13's standards, which I was using. Yes, Ignition Starts and Ex-Va was hard for its time, but so was PARANOiA. I see boss song as being difficult in the revolutionary sense.
In which case, yes, Slam and Larpus. But no boss songs until the 3rd S.E, at least IMO.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:04 CST :: 11/12/2009
I'm pretty sure Hypnosis was pretty insane for its time considering nobody in Korea had played that type of game before.
Posted by: FSX on 20:53 CST :: 11/12/2009
Playing through Hypnosis Hard again, it is totally a boss chart, it has just been so long since it was hard that we no longer consider it one.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 21:52 CST :: 11/12/2009
That is a 9 footer, therefore lacked the almighty 10 foot factor and rush that MAX 300 first presented. Afronova is hard to an extent (I can do it quite easily but I love crossovers) but it doesn't qualify as "boss."
Pump hardly has Boss songs simply because there are Another steps on top of WorldMAX and such. Kind of hard to have a boss song when the many times you play it aren't hard at all and other non-boss songs have incredibly hard steps at times.
In fact, I'd go so far to say it is impossible for PIU to have a boss song due to that. With a focus more outside of Arcade Station, you just can't have an individual song that could be that.
The reason Pro could have boss songs is simply because outside of the standard mode of play, you have... playing the same steps with mods. Same with DDR somewhat.
EDIT: By that I don't mean that the songs aren't hard or memorably hard. You have Slam, Dignity, Chimera, and such that can be milestones in a sense but I wouldn't go so far as to call them boss songs.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 00:17 CST :: 11/30/2009
Speaking of Pro 2. WinDEU put up a suggestion thread on Aaron in Japan's forums.
< http://aij.ddruk.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=6444 >
Most of the suggestions have been stupid shit like "CUSTOMS". I just posted some stuff. One thing in particular I think will help drive the two series in different directions.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 01:54 CST :: 11/30/2009
My advice is the same as always: "Don't be Pump." And don't market it as the new Pump. Clarify to distributors and arcades exactly what this game is. It is not a sequel to NX2 or NXA. Don't include stuff from those games outside of Uprock and Crazy. Take the game in a different direction. Don't be DDR either.
And look less like a Stepmania theme, I guess. But that's pretty hard to do. I can't really say anything about the rest of the music since that's a matter of taste, but it's refreshing to hear that Kyle Ward will be nowhere near it. His music is very bad.
And, if you take the extreme route of removing "Pump It Up" from the game's title COMPLETELY, I'll even go as far as support it. If not, then how about "Pump It Up presents... [insert game title here]"?
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 02:27 CST :: 11/30/2009
Not all of Kyle Ward's music is THAT bad...but Pump took the liberty of choosing some of his absolute worst creations for NX2. After all, they were mostly making fun of him.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 13:18 CST :: 11/30/2009
Your first piece of advice is actually pretty much my major point. My suggestion was almost exactly, "Don't pull any non-US licenses from NX2/NXA. If it's a license you want from pump's past, only take it if it's NOT in a recent version."
Some of Kyle's songs will be licnesed for the game, but he's not part of the Fun In Motion team anymore. He's doin' the iDance thing.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 14:27 CST :: 11/30/2009
Well hopefully this will mean his songs won't carry over to "NXB". That would be the worst offense.
Posted by: WayneC02 on 22:08 CST :: 11/30/2009
To be fair, like was said earlier on this page, they pretty much took his WORST songs from Pro/ITG for NX2... he's got some decent stuff that I wouldn't mind being put into Pump since it would be something different (akin to including stuff like Beat Sharp or Very old Couples).
As far as Pro 2 goes, it needs to be its own game. It needs to stop being Stepmania with Pump skin. Has anyone seen the new interface of DDRX2's arcade iteration? How Konami FINALLY stopped rehashing 5th Mix's graphics? Pro's interface fit the game for the most part but they need to expand on it more. They're obviously keeping the Pump gameplay, so why not continue to try and distance itself from its SM/DDR roots, as far as interface at least?
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 22:23 CST :: 11/30/2009
They're not doing very good at distancing themselves considering Pro has song banners, songs organized as a text-based list, a semi-DDR level scale, buttons on the cabinet, color-coded notes, uninspired background animations, ripoffs of DDR songs (Energizer = "Max 303"), tech-based gameplay, marathon courses, and an endless slew of boring and generic instrumental songs.
It'll be really bad if Pro 2 looks like Pro 1, because it seems like even DDR itself is changing with the times.
Re: Ward's catalog: I played through a huge chunk of Pro. On a scale of 1-10, I heard nothing above a 6, with the average song being a 3. (Dance All Night and VVV... I'd be generous giving those two a zero.)
Posted by: Thanh on 22:28 CST :: 11/30/2009
I like the idea of PIU songs with timing windows :[
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 22:29 CST :: 11/30/2009
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 11:53 CST :: 12/01/2009
Is that for NX as well or just NX2/NXA?
Also my only suggestion for Pro 2 would still be a lot more Marathon courses to merit actually diving into that mode more than a handful of times.
Posted by: WaltCip on 12:40 CST :: 12/01/2009
As I've said before, there's always going to be a fundamental difference between the wants of the 4-panel and the 5-panel players, simply due to the different types of charts both sides have been subject to, as well as the different music, hell - even the different BGAs. Pump Pro was an attempt to enmesh the two with 4-panel charts and mods in a 5-panel system. I'm expecting Pump Pro 2 will continue to follow that formula so as not to alienate their specific fanbase, with the exception of a few Jason Dread charts.
Pump Pro can't be any less Pump without turning into ITG3. It needs to maintain the Pump formula. It should have a fair balance of old and new Pump songs and (DECENT!!!) originals from Kyle Ward and co..
On another note, the best thing they ever did was allow edits in the first game, and I hope that stays in the second. But they need to make edits easier. The only website I know that provides the base edits is practically inoperable. This is a symptom of Pro being too divisive for it's own good, I guess - the lack of any formal fansite for the game.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 14:23 CST :: 12/01/2009
NX2 and NXA.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 02:23 CST :: 12/15/2009
Pump It Up Pro: Encore is a bad name, but it fits it, I guess. Encore means hearing the same old crap again.
And Kyle Ward should not be called a dance game legend. In his own world, maybe.
Posted by: FSX on 06:02 CST :: 12/15/2009
Kyle made that quote himself. : D
Pro Encore is a bad idea for a name, as people probably would confuse it with the Encore Pack for Pro.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 19:18 CST :: 12/15/2009
Wait, is that what it is being called now?
Posted by: Chris Lee on 23:10 CST :: 12/15/2009
< http://www.exergamefitness.com/idance-crew-2009.htm >
Under Chris Foy
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 15:48 CST :: 12/16/2009
That is a horrible name for this game...is that the best they could come up with? I think it will probably be changed to something a little more creative, Pump Pro 2 lol, before it's released.
I like Walt's suggestions and ideas for the game the best. One thing I don't understand how is a step chart on a 5 panel game made like a 4 panel step chart? I've heard this more than once and don't understand what it means.
Lol @ Kyle Ward calling himself a dance legend Nothing strikes home like humility...
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 15:53 CST :: 12/16/2009
It's a horrible name, agreed.
The "like a 4-panel chart" thing is referring to the general style of the steps. 4-panel DDR and ITG charts have a special type of "flow" to them. 5-panel Pump charts take advantage of the extra step and provide more variety and a more unique "flow". It's subtle, but very noticeable to anyone who pays attention. Try autogen'ing 4-->5 panel or 5-->4 panel on a DDR chart or a good Pump chart on Stepmania. You'd see the difference.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 16:05 CST :: 12/16/2009
Thanks for the explanation, I think I understand what you mean. There are definitely some Pro charts that I don't like and some others that I think are really good, although the charts in the regular Pump versions are superior imo.
Posted by: FSX on 16:52 CST :: 12/16/2009
To drive Turkeyslam's point home, I just played You don't wanna runup! Crazy in 4-panel mode. The turns felt weird, and I know they would feel right on a Pump pad.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 17:26 CST :: 12/16/2009
It's more a matter of what style of steps each of the games emphasizes.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 19:08 CST :: 12/16/2009
You can get creative with 4-panel.
It just so happens many choose not to.
Posted by: WaltCip on 20:13 CST :: 12/16/2009
"Getting creative" usually equates to comments along these lines from the "professionals":
1. What am I running to?
2. Was that hand really necessary?
3. Crossovers... at THIS BPM?
4. What's with all the turns?
5. That single double-step just absolutely killed the entire chart...
6. The song doesn't need to be this hard/easy.
7. You charted the vocals. That is a very, very bad thing.
8. Dukamok has charted this, and charted this better.
9. This chart just doesn't feel right.
10. OMGWTF A QUAD
Seriously, I hear that all the time from 4-panel players when they play non-Pro Pump or a Pump inspired-chart. This starts to get really annoying when charting doubles.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 20:41 CST :: 12/16/2009
Then those people are retarded as there is no one single way to sim a song at all.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 03:15 CST :: 12/17/2009
You know, I'm not a violent guy, but seeing Kyle Ward's picture, just makes me want to backhand that shit eating grin to the back of his neck.
I'm sorry.... I don't know what my problem is. I wanna kick his ass. I wanna have a son, so I can raise him to kick this guy's ass. Correction: I wanna have a daughter, so I can raise her to kick this guy's ass.
Just ignore me. Like you will with this sequel.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 04:36 CST :: 12/17/2009
They may be retards, but they make up 99% of the elitist ITG asshat population.
Seriously. I love the game, but I hate the population.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 05:06 CST :: 12/17/2009
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 19:56 CST :: 12/17/2009
I'm still surprised AM is still funding Pro
Posted by: delrio on 01:30 CST :: 12/18/2009
Quoting this because I have now read it about 15 times and can't stop laughing. I agree with you, too.
I don't think all of KW's music is bad, some of it is kind of enjoyable, but shit like the "Dance Game Legend" really pisses me off.
The whole premise of the Pro series is really retarded, too. I hate ITG and Pro for this whole "mimicking another existing game and using someone else's code to do it" thing. Sure, it's cool to see open source software being useful to people, but the Pro team is just milking the hell out of software they didn't have to pay for (and even pushed the developers to change the license for it).
I don't even get the whole Pro craze. It's PIU's ITG. Wasn't ITG supposed to be more difficult crap for expert players?
I could swear Pump already had some pretty retardedly hard stuff in it before Pro showed up (wasn't NX in before Pro, thus meaning Chimera existed at this point?).
Off my soapbox now.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 02:12 CST :: 12/18/2009
ITG is in no way more difficult than Pump in terms of gameplay. Even the most sadistic charts with hundreds of steps take much less movement and effort than anything on Pump when done properly...which is why there are so many ridiculously good players who won't accept even one fraction of a fault on anything.
Frankly, they're good-for-nothing brainwashed jerks who think everyone sucks at everything when it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS that they are complete masters at what they do.
Posted by: delrio on 02:24 CST :: 12/18/2009
I suppose my post wasn't so clear on the what I think ITG (and Pro) are supposed to be.
Pro seems like it is what ITG 3 became.
Honestly, of all people in the world, the average ITG player is my least favorite. Pro players are annoying, too.
Posted by: luciusxx on 15:48 CST :: 12/18/2009
Posted by: FSX on 07:00 CST :: 12/19/2009
Pro was supposed to exist even if ITG3 did. They probably just threw all of their ITG3 songs in when Konami won.
Posted by: ShadeLRK on 00:00 CST :: 1/09/2010
I hope this Pro2 thingie and Andamiro bieng involved with it doesn't affect the release date of the next pump pix (COME OUT ALREADY!).
Posted by: Kyrandian on 23:01 CST :: 1/10/2010
The team working on Pro is really interested in figuring out what worked and what didn't in the first game. If you have changes you would like made in Pro 2, let them know! I was hoping this thread would contain constructive suggestions rather than talk trash about entire communities of dance game players.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 03:07 CST :: 1/11/2010
What worked: ITG songs playable in five panel format
What didn't work: attempting to make it a Pump game. You guys will never be able to make it a Pump game so try to do something else that's original with it.
Also, I skimmed through this thread, and if the only thing you summed up about the thread is "insulting a community of dance players", then you're got some serious reading comprehension problems. Only 3 posts out of 100+ have anything of the sort and they're all on the last couple pages.
I apologize, but you're going to have trouble getting positive feedback from a community that prefers the REAL Pump it Up.
I can only hope this mix doesn't negatively coincide with the launch of NX Ultimate and take away the game's steam. This country barely managed to adopt NXA.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 07:33 CST :: 1/11/2010
I couldn't agree more with Turkeyslam. If you want positive feedback, go ask these questions on a pump pro forum. We do prefer the real game. I know this is a part of the forum where you talk about other music games, but it doesn't mean that stuff will be positive. This pro game can hurt the sales of the real Pump game, and that's one of the reasons why I hate the idea of pro. I'm not blasting pro as a game itself, because it does look.... ok in it's own way, but it's like the distant cousin of Pump that tries to make a name for itself only based on the fact it looks like Pump.
Would I play pro? If there wasn't any other Pump machine for me to play. Otherwise, no. Not at all. Maybe for older songs, but the game itself would feel too foreign for me, that it wouldn't seem fun. I forced myself to play ddr for a few years when we didn't have any Pump machines in the area, and I honestly almost quit the rythim action genre alltogether. In fact, ITG 2 kept me interested in it, until I heard that a Dave & Busters opened up with Pump. So I am grateful that ITG kept me interested in these games, but pro is taking it a bit too far.
I have given my own ideas on how to make the game better (even though I never played it), and I, myself, didn't blast the community of players. I only blasted the Dance Game Douchebag himself. That it wasn't based off of his involvement with the game, it was his photo. In reality, I could care less about Kyle Ward. That photo of his on the one site just made me think of those comments right away.
Anyway, you guys can go ahead and make your little game for yourselves, but it will never be taken seriously by this community of players. Just like ddr. It's just the way it is. Nothing against people who play ITG/pro. But I do hear that a majority of them seem like jackasses. But that's hearsay. Whatever.
Bottom line, if you guys didn't screw up with the ITG product, we wouldn't have to worry about this pro shit.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 09:54 CST :: 1/11/2010
Pro isn't bad but once you have played a few songs here and there the game starts to feel... lacking. I mean, yeah, you have marathons, but those are easily beat and you still have not much else to do in the game except PA everything and throw in mod after mod.
What would help the next game would be to include a ton more Marathons perhaps, as well as maybe an extra mode or two. Now I know this is Stepmania, but seeing as how people have already made a SM build with WorldMAX in it, I think an alternative for that in Pro could be made. Not necessarily a WorldMAX thing where you go around a huge world, but perhaps something a bit more... Pro oriented? I don't know.
What would also help a lot is to make better charts from the first one. Virtual Emotion, for one, could have a great chart, but there are a lot of spins in it that just don't fit.
Posted by: Kyrandian on 12:45 CST :: 1/11/2010
My summation of the thread was unjustified and based on only the most recent posts. I apologize.
Posted by: GrayscaleRain on 16:25 CST :: 1/14/2010
I've been wondering about the whole PIU Pro thing. It's basically 5 panel ITG, right?
I mean, I've never cared for ITG in general. The song selection is a bit... eh. It doesn't have any of the euro/disco appeal of the earlier DDR mixes that I like, or the rock/rap appeal of the PUMP games. A few good things, but really not that great, and the game itself is ridiculously hard (needlessly so).
It just doesn't seem like it'd be very attractive to either the PUMP or DDR audiences... that's all....
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 17:21 CST :: 1/14/2010
There's a lot I really love about ITG2.
It just...should stay on ITG2.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 20:26 CST :: 1/14/2010
Well you got Pro now, so might as well try to work with making it its own thing ala how ITG was different from DDR.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 20:21 CST :: 1/15/2010
you could change the name from something else. Rather then "Pump it up Pro" Try "Kick it Up" or invet a new name
Posted by: WaltCip on 11:57 CST :: 1/16/2010
That will REALLY make some waves!
What the people here really want is for the title to be as vague and esoteric as possible so that arcade owners will be immediately turned off at the prospect of buying one.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 12:10 CST :: 1/16/2010
That's not true. Get over yourself.
The game can succeed on its own right. It just shouldn't get in the way of Pump sales...just like any product shouldn't get in the way of the sales of any other.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 12:36 CST :: 1/16/2010
Can't they use the ITG name again? or did they completely loose the right to the name even though the game has 5 panels and not 4
Posted by: FSX on 12:36 CST :: 1/16/2010
Changing the name does not change what the game is. It is still a Pump game, even if they call it Fun Panel-Smashing Madness 2010 Special Edition.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 00:53 CST :: 1/17/2010
Yeah, sounds like everyone wants arcades to continue buying this as Pump It Up Pro.
What I see this thread as is trying to get feedback from both the PIU community and the Pro community to make a game that will please them both. Obviously, this isn't the main line of Pump games and it won't ever. At least try to help it out. Maybe then it'll be enjoyable in its own right.
Also you seem to forget how they actually got the rights to make this game with Andamiro, so they probably are required to have the name "Pump It Up" in the title due to Andamiro requiring it. Just like NX2 had to have the Pro songs that they included.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 10:22 CST :: 1/17/2010
Are there really that many Pro machines out there anyway? My take on the game is that it wasn't that much of a success at all as far as sales go, and the only reason Andamiro is making the sequel is because it's relatively inexpensive for them to do so. You all know I like Pro, but I do prefer the regular Pump games. I don't play ITG and I don't have any animosity toward whatever community there is that does play the game. The thing that I do like is that most of the time all the people are playing ITG at the arcade that has the Pro machine that I play on...so a lot of times this means uninterrupted play
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 12:53 CST :: 1/17/2010
It is NOT a Pump game. Utilizing Pump machines doesn't make it one. With that logic, hacked upgrades of In the Groove would have then been considered a DDR game.
Pump games are those created in-house, utilizing the same formula that has made the game unique, distinctive, and personable since 1999.
Pro is created by a group of Americans completely unaffiliated with the group that makes the main series, targeting both a completely different demographic and a completely different community. You could make an argument that if Nexcade stopped making sequels then the game would be assumed to "carry over" to the new American developers, but this isn't the case. Nexcade is still dishing out mixes year after year.
Pro is in direct competition with Pump as far as the developers, nearly all arcades/amusement centers, and the majority of the Pump community are concerned. The only companies that benefit from both games are Andamiro and the occasional extremely rare arcade that can afford to have both Pump and Pro available to play.
They didn't require to have the Pro songs. They took them because they were either extremely cheap or free. And it was Andamiro's idea. Nexcade have been proven to hate the Pro material and they wouldn't have been in the game if the publisher hadn't stepped in.
As for Andamiro forcing them to name it Pump, that may be the case, but the developers of Pro have the power to request changing the name to reflect the game as a different product.
I think that in the US there are more Pro machines than there were NX2 machines in 2008. Outside of the US, you're right, it was a complete failure, but in the US there are huge metropolitan areas that have Pro but not Pump.
Posted by: Kuhazan on 21:18 CST :: 1/24/2010
Yes however the real question is... is it really a better earner? I would think not... it still falls into that niche category which makes it no more effective in the US market than the Nexcade games.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 21:57 CST :: 1/24/2010
I agree completely. I don't think that Pro is any more accessible than the regular versions. I never see anyone playing except for the hardcore players, never see any casual players try the game.
This was the same sort of thing with Technika, when I was playing down Wildwood last summer. The game is amazing, but other than me and a handful of other people (all hardcore music gamer types), no one was playing it. The guitar hero arcade right next to it, got a steady flow of players Sadly, I just don't think these foreign games have a chance with the general American audience.
Posted by: FSX on 07:02 CST :: 1/25/2010
DDR always has had a bit of one.
People never "just try" Pump, but they will "just try" DDR for some reason.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 10:21 CST :: 1/25/2010
Because to the majority of the American audience, dance games ARE Dance Dance Revolution. Pump is a knockoff. This mentality will never change.
Posted by: kpopgrrl on 15:20 CST :: 1/25/2010
I think it could have, had Exceed for PS2 and XBOX been marketed correctly. (Not to mention published well.)
Posted by: FSX on 19:26 CST :: 1/25/2010
Review-wise, Exceed did roughly as well as DDR Extreme. IGN cut it many points for its menu (I don't like the Exceed system that much either), which gave it a lower overall rating.
NXA would be a hit with reviewers, and if they did ads right, the game probably could sell well.
Posted by: Pumper Zero on 11:36 CST :: 2/07/2010
I have to admit that I liked the skin.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 12:08 CST :: 2/07/2010
...it's the exact same game. What's different? They changed the silver in the middle to yellow?
Posted by: Pumper Zero on 13:46 CST :: 2/07/2010
Well, I liked the "futuristic but childish" look and the honeycombs.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 16:09 CST :: 2/07/2010
Wow I love the color palette of it.
Posted by: FSX on 21:29 CST :: 2/07/2010
Exactly what I was thinking.
I'm sort of waiting to see if anything really exciting will come up, though.
Posted by: Pumper Zero on 23:10 CST :: 2/07/2010
Nice to see Gargoyle is in, it's one of my favourite O²Jam songs.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 01:29 CST :: 2/08/2010
Holy shit Sanxion7 is in this
REALLY HOPING for Dreamcatcher now.
Posted by: valius on 01:58 CST :: 2/08/2010
The new skin is MUCH better than the old, IMO (I like it). I'm curious to see what the charts are like this time around.
Posted by: FSX on 06:47 CST :: 2/08/2010
So, that orange-brown doubles chart [in the screenshot]...
I think it's a routine chart. (read: Union)
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 19:55 CST :: 2/08/2010
I like the color changes and didn't expect much in the way of interface changes for this. I don't really care about the interface so much, I'm interested to see how many songs get into the game from NX2/NXA/older versions. If licensing isn't an issue, I hope a lot of good regular Pump songs make it into the game.
Posted by: RaúlCamOv on 20:12 CST :: 2/08/2010
Hey I loved the new color palette the new skin IS great to me sadly I doubt I'll have the chance to play this on pc like the old one
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 21:29 CST :: 2/08/2010
Loving this New Skin. I like it a lot
Posted by: FSX on 05:38 CST :: 2/09/2010
If their security's as good as it was last time around, you will.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 15:36 CST :: 2/09/2010
My impression was that the devs for the game didn't really care about it being cracked. I remember a thread on piupro.com where someone was showing a homebuilt Pro "machine". It was really professional and slick looking, and Kyle Ward was giving the guy props. Most people that have the game, don't have any good way to play it at home anyway, so it doesn't really matter much imo.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 15:54 CST :: 2/09/2010
I think the big problem is they want to avoid an ITG issue, where the game was hacked and making money in the arcades with content they didn't own.
Besides the game will be cracked regardless.
I'm not saying it is a bad thing. After all, lots and lots of games get cracked and hacked.
Posted by: farukoddc on 02:20 CST :: 2/10/2010
I Like so much the "new" interface, because it's not so boring like the first one..
and the Titles and songs are nice ^^
Posted by: kpopgrrl on 13:09 CST :: 2/10/2010
Yeah, but if you read the IGN review they say Pump has "some growing up to do" as if it hasn't existed since 1999. They also say "new possibility" when talking about the diagonal arrows and center as if they haven't existed since 1999. They also refer to K-Pop as "J-Pop."
That's what I mean by the marketing failed. People (and reviewers) need to understand this game has existed in the arcades since 1999 and has gone through a lot of changes over the years. It's also important to know the game is from S. Korea to understand a huge part of it's identity and why a good portion of the songs are K-pop songs. Mastiff should have distinguished the game more from DDR than just saying that 5 panel is more like dancing than 4 panel. Pump It Up is not just different than DDR in terms of dance pad layout, elements like the grading system, the emphasis on combo, and the great double charts make the gameplay very different than DDR.
Posted by: AJ 187 on 15:38 CST :: 2/10/2010
yeah supposedly the encryption is different/better this time around. Time will tell.
Posted by: FSX on 16:25 CST :: 2/10/2010
If they use dongles for more than authentication (and maybe use a packer like you did once), they're off to a good start.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 16:48 CST :: 2/10/2010
It's Stepmania. The people at Sows will get it cracked.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 16:56 CST :: 2/10/2010
And that has nothing to do with anything.
They got IIDX cracked AND hacked with custom songs as well. Big deal.
Posted by: valius on 21:24 CST :: 2/10/2010
Well, if you base your engine around the most prolific open-source dance simulation program in the world, barring heavy engine changes (which need to happen to avoid the Pro PC situation), your game (Pro) has a higher chance of being hacked/figured out.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 16:11 CST :: 2/11/2010
You're being irrelevant. Sure, they cracked IIDX, but that was an infinitely more difficult process. Sows is obsessed with IIDX so it was inevitable that they'd crack it and do all that shit. Stepmania, however, is a million times more accessible for everyday random music game fans to hack, modify, and play.
If Pro 2 is anything like Pro 1, where they managed to get the game running IDENTICALLY to the real life arcade version, then I find the $2500 you have to pay for an upgrade kit to be completely extortionate.
Posted by: FSX on 17:07 CST :: 2/11/2010
Figuring out the 2dx format is probably about as hard as figuring out STX or BGA.
Pro being SM makes the initial hack stage no easier than IIDX; the teams working on it still have no more than a guess as to what it is doing encryption-wise. It's not something I or stepmanialegendffr381329834 could do, if that's what you mean.
Granted, it is easier past that point, as you have what basically is the engine sitting in C++ form right out in front of you. StepMania PRO is not quite perfect, however.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 20:56 CST :: 2/11/2010
If they're going to charge $2500 to upgrade to Pro 2, then I don't think anyone is going to buy it.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 21:30 CST :: 2/11/2010
Oh yes they will.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 13:14 CST :: 2/13/2010
Encryption has no barring on difficulty of hacking based on what it is encrypting. Otherwise, I'd have encrypted Pro myself a long time ago.
Sure, once it is decrypted and such Pro is a lot easier to add custom songs, themes, and everything else, but then again who really cares about that? I'm sure the Pro team knew it was going to be hacked as well, hence why they added a BGA for any song without a custom BGA to show
instead of a generic random BGA.
You aren't supposed to see the internals of these programs anyway, but people do. The Pro team, however, probably won't be so uptight about it at all so long as you don't set it up for profit.
Once you add custom songs you turn it into a simulator, regardless of the game.
Also $2500 is pretty damn cheap for an upgrade, considering licensing would be a lot more expensive to the Pro team.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 13:19 CST :: 2/13/2010
You're paying $2500 for a game that was originally intended as a free and open source simulator - a simulator whose primary purpose to this day is to play simfiles with pirated music where the artists don't get paid any royalties. The Pro team, as you just suggested, probably accepted the fact that the mix would be hacked anyway. Pro even recognizes KSF files, ffs. In essence, you're paying $2500 for something that people have been getting for free for years. While on the other hand, NXA sells for $1800-$2000 and provides a relatively irreplicable experience. It just seems like a fantastically colossal ripoff.
Posted by: WaltCip on 15:27 CST :: 2/13/2010
Edit: This is going to make Turkeyslam fall out of his chair laughing.
Perhaps the demand is projected to be higher for Pro 2 than for NXA?
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 15:50 CST :: 2/13/2010
It's not funny at all, it's really unfortunate. Yes, in the US I'm pretty sure Pro 2 WILL outsell both NXA and the sequel, simply because the United States market FUCKING SUCKS. Nothing but misinformation in this country as far as music games are concerned.
Posted by: FSX on 16:51 CST :: 2/13/2010
Minus the content, that is. They've never gotten the content before.
Also, they didn't get any support, and they didn't get a coherent product that was designed and sold (at least in that configuration) for a purpose.
It's sort of like paying $80+/year for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Sure, you could just go get CentOS, but some people actually want the support and such.
Posted by: AJ 187 on 18:14 CST :: 2/13/2010
Have you tested this on the real arcade hardware/software? (NOT that "Pump it Up Pro PC" that's going around)
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 19:11 CST :: 2/13/2010
you can't blame people for their musical taste. Pro 2 has more music that appeals to an american audience. Also, isn't the ITG fanbase bigger then the pump fanbase? that can be a factor as well
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:45 CST :: 2/13/2010
I think that on the most part, arcades got Pro because the game was marketed in the US heavily in trade shows and whatnot while NX was not. They didn't know any better and thought it was a proper sequel. We'll see what changes this time around with both mixes coming out at essentially the same time.
Also, re: FSX's comments - I guess you have a point, but $2500 is an insane price to pay for those perks. Maybe if you drop two zeros.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 19:50 CST :: 2/13/2010
Most American arcades wouldn't know a bad deal if it smacked them on the side of the head.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:53 CST :: 2/13/2010
Seriously though, where does that price figure come from? In regular Pump, the license costs are high because the songs come from major labels. The exclusive licenses in Pro 2 are stuff like Sanxion7 and DM Ashura. Surely they can't be being paid MORE than something like Drunken Tiger or Wonder Girls.
Posted by: Kuhazan on 20:04 CST :: 2/13/2010
exactly why they will be going out of business soon
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 20:09 CST :: 2/13/2010
Well, that's not exactly true. It's that arcade games themselves haven't satisfactorily innovated to compete with console games profitably.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 21:02 CST :: 2/13/2010
Maybe their looking for more money. I figure songs can't be too expensive because i believe Kyle Ward makes the majority of the songs (apprently he has seven different names or whatever) and that AM gives them their songs for free (or cheap)
Probabley figure they jack the price to get more revenue
Posted by: WaltCip on 21:17 CST :: 2/13/2010
No, arcades are completely going to pot. I've only been to one decent arcade lately, and that has a customer intake of about... five or six people a day. I miss the 90s. Consoles are keeping us locked away in our homes. We're being Borged.
And didn't Pro 2 cut (as in remove) Kyle Ward from the team?
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 00:46 CST :: 2/14/2010
Online is the reason people are staying home more and one of the arcade's killers.
Posted by: Arturo on 13:32 CST :: 2/14/2010
That's correct. Neither him nor Foy were involved with Pro 2.
Edit -- Let me amend this by saying your use of "cut" implies that Kyle had no choice. I have no idea if THAT part is true. He may have just chosen on his own not to participate.
Edit2 -- Kyle informs he and Foy left by their own choice.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 16:54 CST :: 2/15/2010
I believe they're focusing on iDance, and Kyle is doing his Oscillator X/music stuff.
Posted by: FSX on 17:12 CST :: 2/15/2010
Yep. iDance is probably the main reason, as Kyle seemed to prefer four-panel.
Posted by: Baro on 12:59 CST :: 3/13/2010
It was at amusement expo
Posted by: FSX on 07:21 CST :: 3/14/2010
< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsFr8kJrsG8&fmt=18 >
Second part of the video is Pro 2. First is Fiesta.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 07:20 CST :: 3/16/2010
Word floating around is that Pro 2 had something like 50 cabinet Pre-Sales and 5 upgrade Pre-Sales from the amusement show. No info on Fiesta sales.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 08:04 CST :: 3/16/2010
Fiesta likely sold squat because Pro 2 was what they were pushing. For fuck's sake, the players hired there were all wearing Pro 2 shirts.
Posted by: Pumper Zero on 10:03 CST :: 3/16/2010
Pro sucked balls, but Pro 2 looks interesting.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 11:50 CST :: 3/16/2010
I'll admit that musically (ONLY musically) Pro 2 looks interesting to me, as it includes a few artists I liked that had songs in O2Jam and whatnot. Replacing Kyle Ward with these artists is the best thing they could've done as far as new content is concerned.
The biggest problem, as I beat to the ground already, is that it will SHITFUCK the sales of Fiesta in the US. I don't know what they were thinking releasing these games simultaneously.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 13:00 CST :: 3/16/2010
The Space Pumpkin being gone is the best thing that could have happend to the Pro side of things. Shit, him staying away from chart making is the best thing that could happen to any music game.
And I think you know exactly what they were thinking.
Posted by: delrio on 19:44 CST :: 3/16/2010
If Tilt manages to fuck up and get Pro 2 instead of Fiesta, they are never going to hear the end of it from the few regulars who do play at the mall here, who will, of course, go back to playing Exceed 2 for twice as much.
The one redeeming thing about Pro 2 is the lack of Kyle Ward. However, what I've seen from the soundtrack is not anything I want to play in 5-panel. It's not even music I would care to listen to outside of the game.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 22:48 CST :: 3/16/2010
I haven't heard much about Pro 2's songlist so far, so I can't come to such conclusions.
But Kyle Ward being absolutely nowhere near this is what will make this a good game.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 05:46 CST :: 3/17/2010
I think the theme of this thread is that Kyle Ward is the dysentery of the music game industry.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 06:28 CST :: 3/17/2010
It seems to me that Andamiro never really tried that hard to market the regular Pump series in America and have essentially given up, and think that Pro is the only thing that has a chance of selling here.
Also, I must be the only one who likes the Kyle Ward music that's in Pro
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 06:33 CST :: 3/17/2010
You are correct.
I don't know to which level they "gave up", but they are absolutely putting their efforts on Pro instead of Fiesta for this market.
Source: AM marketing themselves.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 13:35 CST :: 3/17/2010
ugh. America needs to shun pro as much as possible. I don't want to have people think that this is a good game. It's not a Pump game, but it will be marketed as one.
I pray that pro will not be the death of Pump in America. That will be so sad.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 18:27 CST :: 3/17/2010
I don't know how to explain this but i'll try:
Pro 2 seems to have more of an American appeal then Fiesta. Pro 2's songlist looks to be comprised of more songs that one would "dance too" rather then Fiesta. Not to say theirs dancable in Fiesta, but i'm willing to wager then Techno and Eurobeat is what people will listen rather then K-pop
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:51 CST :: 3/17/2010
Nothing complicated about it. You're right.
Posted by: Kuhazan on 20:13 CST :: 3/17/2010
it is not a smart move on Andamiro's part to alienate buyers by dropping some alternate version... toss the music into the main version charge the difference in price... especially since apparently the upgrade for Pro 2 and Fiesta will cost more than in the past anyway.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 23:16 CST :: 3/17/2010
Andamiro isn't exactly known for making "smart" decisions.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 07:42 CST :: 3/18/2010
Only if they are weeaboos.
Also I'm sure the reason they are marketing Pro 2 more than Fiesta is because Pro is created in the US. It may not be the best excuse, but you know... it doesn't have to be.
There is no American appeal to Pro 2, by the way. If it did it'd have a lot more rock, pop, and rap. Instead you have genres of music that mostly exist in an underground scene. It has about as much American appeal as Fiesta does.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 09:01 CST :: 3/18/2010
I completely agree. The only way it would have more appeal to the American audience is if it had songs like are in Guitar Hero/Rock Band/etc.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 10:46 CST :: 3/18/2010
But either way, it certainly appeals MORE to Americans than "a bunch of that ol' shitty chink music with a game title that makes it sound like it's for a bunch of damn wetback mexicans".
Fiesta is insanely unappealing in the eyes of the average consumer in comparison to Pro 2.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 12:43 CST :: 3/18/2010
The buttons don't hurt the average players perception of Pro 2 either.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 18:36 CST :: 3/18/2010
Well To be honest you also have to realize pump it up is a game that has a huge learning curve before you can really dive in and enjoy the game. So the majority of people will think the game is "too hard" and give up easily.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 21:45 CST :: 3/18/2010
That is if they can even navigate the fucking ATTRACT SCREEN.
They already have a hard enough time trying to navigate fucking Jumping Jackpot and that only has 3 fucking buttons!
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 22:12 CST :: 3/18/2010
I know right? I me the buttons on Pro Machines might confuse people even more after they put their credits in.
So if Kyle Ward and Chris Foy are gone, then where did the Pro 2 find their music? also i'm wondering if they got permission from AM to put Fiesta songs
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 22:19 CST :: 3/18/2010
The Fun In Motion guys have licensing contacts. Similar to how RoXoR handled everything. Even the Space Pumpkin stuff in ITG/2/Pro/2 is licensed. Can't really say anything about the possibility of fiesta songs.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 23:25 CST :: 3/18/2010
I can confirm that there aren't any Fiesta songs. Macnom told me.
Anyway, the new artists heavily consist of guys who contributed to local O2Jam songs: Sanxion7, Canblaster, SGX... leagues better than Kyle. I can't really say anything negative about that. As I said in the past, I'd support this game if it weren't a direct competitor to regular Pump.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 23:49 CST :: 3/18/2010
I like Sanxion7...Canblaster, not so much.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 07:32 CST :: 3/19/2010
Sanxion7 rules and I am so glad he got in this and the song isn't EternuS. His other songs are so great, and I really do hope that if they actually do add-ons to this that Dreamcatcher becomes one of the songs available.
Posted by: FSX on 09:01 CST :: 3/19/2010
Eternus is in the game, though.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 10:42 CST :: 3/19/2010
I still say if they had Guitar Hero/Rock Band mainstream popular songs in the game, then casual players would at least try it. They would probably play easy or normal mode or whatever, but if it had popular music in it, it would get more attention from the American audience.
Whether it's "chink" music, lol Turkeyslam, or techno/electronic music, it's not going to bring the casual player to the game. Again, the only people I've ever really seen playing Pro are the ITG players.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 16:34 CST :: 3/19/2010
I DID NOT KNOW THIS
it isn't a bad song but it isn't my favorite of his
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 17:11 CST :: 3/19/2010
Just outta curiosity, what are your favorite ones and why?
Eternus isn't one of my favorites either...but for the 4-panel simfiles it's used for, it works.
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 20:10 CST :: 3/19/2010
Dreamcatcher. I like the theme of the song while also being an excellent song.
And his remix of Eggs. Because Renard's Eggs is pretty much the best thing he has done and Sanxion7's remix was pretty good.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 15:28 CST :: 3/23/2010
There's also the small problem of ASCAP being a bunch of ASSHATS and demanding jukebox licensing fees out of Guitar Hero cabinets.
You put a bunch of major U.S. licenses in any dance game, and you run the risk of them blowing you out of the water.
Posted by: WaltCip on 20:52 CST :: 3/23/2010
Funny how ASCAP doesn't try to go after rogue ITG2 r21 machines, because you can have almost unlimited copyright infringement with those things. Unfortunately, I don't care enough for Guitar Hero AC to give a shit about what ASCAP does to them.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 07:44 CST :: 3/24/2010
ASCAP doesn't go after rogue r21 machines becuse DDR simulators aren't important, and for the most part don't contain music that ASSHATS give a shit about. Guitar Hero is a huge name that consists of NOTHING but songs that fall square in the middle of ASSHATS scope.
You need to care, walt. As soon as they wipe out Guitar Hero, any other music based game is likely next. Even if there's only one US license.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 19:58 CST :: 4/07/2010
here's a look at "Routine mode" it looks like a union chart from other pump games. So far this is the best song in the game
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 21:06 CST :: 4/07/2010
because Rave Until The Night Is Over and Gargoyle is in this.
Posted by: MoonLight129 on 16:13 CST :: 4/08/2010
Haven't heard all the songs yet
Posted by: Kuhazan on 21:02 CST :: 4/09/2010
no because perception always reigns supreme... whatever a individual perceives cannot be disputed with anyone as it is their perception. And who are we to judge?
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 11:38 CST :: 4/12/2010
So I went to 8otb this past Saturday and was there for several hours playing Pro 2. I really liked the interface and liked the ability to sort the songs by group. The sort by difficulty didn't seem to work as it did in original Pro. I always liked being able to sort by Crazy charts or Nightmare or whatever, makes it easier to find certain levels. I really liked a lot of the new songs for Pro 2 and the charts. I like to play more NM than anything else and a lot of the new NM charts were really fun and also flowed well with the music, which I like. I don't like charts that are made overly difficult artificially that don't flow with the music, or have a lot of gimmicks, e.g. mines, rolls, hands, etc. I was never really an ITG player, so I don't really care for charts that have mines, rolls, hands in them. I wouldn't say charts that use those are poorly done or anything, just not what I like to play. All in all, I would say I thought the Pro 2 charts were well done, and I also got to see some other players doing some CZ charts. Also, saw some people trying the Routine charts, which looked really fun, this looks to be a really good addition to the game. I liked also the addition of the other skins for NX/NX2/NXA.
There seems to be a hardware issue perhaps at 8otb with some lag occurring with the arrows not syncing with the songs. I had heard they replaced the video card and added more RAM, not sure what the issue is there, but I'm sure it will be fixed at some point. I understand this is still just a beta for the game and it's not complete, I look forward to more songs/charts and whatever other songs from the regular Pump series that could be included. I would love to see songs from NX2/NXA/Fiesta in the game also for added variety. I would go to 8otb to play more, only problem is it's like a 1.5 hour drive from me and the traffic is terrible, but I will definitely go back up there to play Pro 2 again, after a more near final build is installed.
Posted by: valius on 23:38 CST :: 4/12/2010
How hard do the Routine charts get?
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 09:36 CST :: 4/13/2010
I'm not sure, I only saw people trying really easy ones (and still bumping into each other, lol).
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 09:07 CST :: 7/19/2010
Thread Necromancy: Sources inform me that the retail verson of Pro 2 will include very little in the way of K-Pop. Maybe a few of the licenses they already had in Pro 1, and that's it. Discussion?
Posted by: Vin.il on 12:05 CST :: 7/19/2010
Where are those NX2/NXA crossovers?
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 15:13 CST :: 7/19/2010
I looked at the list. There are none. I counted nine songs that are from Pump that aren't Banya or Yahpp.
This is VERY GOOD. I like it. They're finally separating them as two different products. Pissed off about 2006 Love Song and Can Can, though - those should still be here in regular Pump. Also confused about Arch of Darkness and Witch Doctor #1... both there, but removed in Fiesta. Apparently not a lost license then.
Posted by: Noodles on 20:51 CST :: 7/19/2010
The Final version release is going to be done soon.
Routine mode is making me love PRO2.
Posted by: PaRtYbOy on 21:08 CST :: 7/19/2010
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 22:08 CST :: 7/19/2010
Well that's a step in the right direction for sure.
If they could take the words "Pump it Up" out of their title I'll be even happier.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 23:24 CST :: 7/19/2010
Took the words right out of my mouth. Quite literally - it was part of my post before it got chopped off my edit when my internet cut off.
Posted by: valius on 19:39 CST :: 7/20/2010
The entire K-Pop channel:
Another Truth -- Novasonic
Fly -- Epik High
Funky Tonight -- Clon
Go -- U NEE
Hot -- 1TYM
I’ll Give You All My Love -- Wax
My Friend -- Cho PD
Slam -- Novasonic
We Goin’ Fly Remix -- Gyfted
K-Pop still in Fiesta but gone in Pro 2:
Don't Bother Me
Mr. Fire Fighter
There are practically no K-Pop songs in the game... they really are trying to differentiate Pro 2 a lot. I'm also surprised NOTHING came over from NX2 or NXA except the skins from those games. :o
Posted by: xddr1996x on 20:44 CST :: 7/20/2010
Pro 2 is being more of the ITG series. That's why there's a lot of songs from ITG and more electric/pop songs and less PIU and K-Pop songs.
PUMP has more K-Pop and Pop, and Pro 2/ITG has lots of Pop and no others.
Still I would like to try it out.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 23:18 CST :: 7/20/2010
After that, they need to make their own pad and bar design. I'll be happy when this game doesn't resemble Pump in the slightest way.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 07:54 CST :: 7/21/2010
Got any suggestions for new name, pad design, and bar design?
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 08:01 CST :: 7/21/2010
Pro Groove, Move It Like a Pro, Pro Rhythm, Pro Beats...I could go on. Pads could be blue and orange instead of blue and red.
It's not THAT hard for them to just TRY to not look like PIU.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 09:05 CST :: 7/21/2010
Well, I bet changing the Pump pad layout will piss off players. I bet they were frusturated that they had to go from ddr to pump in terms of layout. So for now, that can remain the same. However, make it look different than a REAL Pump pad. custom pannels and design, but the same 1-3-5-7-9 layout. I know that the ddr and ITG pad was the same but had a different look and feeling. They should do the same to Pump.
At the risk of being too "DDR Solo"ish, I was thinking of a new pad layout that is 6 pannels in the half double layout. It's should either be a design where it can support 2 players as well as one (Pump, ddr), or designed for one player at a "Pro" level. Either in the half double layout, or like a 6 button layout that has 2 rows and 3 collums. It looks really ugly in my mind. I don't think they're ever gonna ditch the Pump layout. The should, at least, change the look.
As far as the bar goes, how about a basic X pattern that loops and connects on the top. the bars weld into eachother where the x meets, and the top of the x loops to connect. It can be 2 x pattern bars on each side, or one big x that spans the entire pad length.
And the name, just stick with calling it PRO. "Professional Rythim Operator" or something like that. Sequels can be like "PRO: Brand New Groove" or "PRO: Master Edition" or whatever. So We'll have PIU, ITG, DDR and PRO as the main dance games.
Posted by: xddr1996x on 11:55 CST :: 7/21/2010
Even thought the PRO series is a PIU version of the ITG series, PRO has some really crappy charts. Most of the CZ charts are really easy in PRO 1 and in PRO 2. So I would rather play ITG mainly since there's like 20+ songs from ITG.
PRO 2 to me is pretty fun because of the new Routine mode.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 13:40 CST :: 7/21/2010
Are you only counting songs that were also in Pro 1? Because as far as fiesta's concerned, there's more, such as Hatred, Mobius Strip, We Are, etc.
Posted by: valius on 03:32 CST :: 7/22/2010
Yeah, sorry, I should've clarified that I'm counting K-Pop songs that were in Pro 1, in Fiesta, but not in Pro 2.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 11:34 CST :: 7/23/2010
Whelp, fuck that. BMI is the only distributor with prices for pro 2 upgrades right now and they're RETARDED.
Without mk.9: $3k or so
With mk.9: a bazillion dollars and 18 cents.
Posted by: adonis_minus_20 on 12:34 CST :: 7/23/2010
You could buy another complete Pump arcade for that money...crazy expensive.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 14:00 CST :: 7/23/2010
As much as I'd love that to be the case (so it doesn't sell well), why do I see $2200 and $2700 as the prices on their website then?
< http://www.bmigaming.com/pump-it....ame.htm >
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 21:08 CST :: 7/23/2010
Apologies, that was Betson's pricing. BMI hasn't finalized pricing.
The prices I listed are from Hellacious calling yesterday.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 21:35 CST :: 7/26/2010
I never thought I'd say this, but that's actually really clever.
Posted by: luciusxx on 16:17 CST :: 7/30/2010
Meh, my country got Pump it Up: Pro 2 about..
Yesterday, or two days ago, I think.
Haven't visited the arcade yet.
Will try, though.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 17:11 CST :: 7/30/2010
Even I'll admit it's a good idea, but why didn't they expand the concept anymore than they did? It was the same thing the entire song until the last two notes.
Perhaps halfway they should've at least switched directions or something.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 22:36 CST :: 7/30/2010
Let's be honest here. You just want to see them all slam into each other.
Posted by: luciusxx on 18:39 CST :: 8/02/2010
I still haven't gone to play Pro2 yet >.>
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 19:38 CST :: 8/02/2010
For something so spastic, they should at least choreograph it more intelligently than having one specific thing that happens the entire length of the song.
Posted by: FSX on 11:23 CST :: 8/05/2010
I guess the idea was to do the same thing the whole time. It does change a little bit throughout, though (jumps to runs, at least). I wish they had added some holds, rolls, or lifts, but oh well. I don't see this as a chart I would play more than once.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 11:47 CST :: 8/05/2010
Agreed. It's a one trick pony. I thought it was interesting the first time I saw it, honestly, but every other time after that, it looked boring. It kinda reminded me of being in grade school on the playground. Waiting in line for the slide with like 10 other kids, then it's my turn. 3 seconds of "WHEEEE!" then walking back to wait for my turn again.
NXA/Fiesta has the right idea when it comes to multiple people for charts. 2 or 3 people work (Pumptris 8bit, Sorceress Elise). A dozen just looks silly after 5 minutes. Good try though.
Also, the video I saw first had a lot of people, not 4 as in the one Partyboy posted. It still bothers the hell out of me how small the arrows are. And I didn't know the name of the song was "Pink Fuzzy Bunnies". I thought that was what someone called the routine. I would not be caught dead playing a song called "Pink Fuzzy Bunnies". Hell, I'd play a song called "Menstrual Cycle of the Apocalypse" before a song featuring pink fuzzy bunnies. Somebody on the Pro team needs to be slapped for that. What the hell.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 12:41 CST :: 8/05/2010
Well you can blame Ward for that. It's his song and it's not a new one. The Pro Team is just using it.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 12:59 CST :: 8/05/2010
So, was it the Pro team or Kyle who said to credit the artist as "Wonder Boy" in the title card? Does Kyle call himself Wonder Boy or something? Did the Pro team want to mock or make fun of him by giving him that name? Does Kyle have a fetish for pink bunnies? Just what the hell is going on over there?
Eh. I'm just glad I personally don't have to deal with this game. I can stick to complaining about how ugly the Fiesta noteskin is, and how a lot of charts are in the game, but unavailable, and so on.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 13:17 CST :: 8/05/2010
No, "Wonder Boy" is another one of his self-applied aliases. Just like Smiley, Kaw, Inspector K, and OscillatorX. Just like how Naoki on DDR has so many aliases. The Pro team doesn't have much to do with it (after all, they've been visibly trying to gravitate away from too much Ward with Pro 2). And his song "Pink Fuzzy Bunnies" has been around for a while, and it would've been in ITG3 had Konami not interfered.
This is...not really all that weird.
Posted by: DEDEBERITAS on 16:35 CST :: 8/05/2010
LA PUMP PRO 2 CREO YA ESTA DISPNIBLE EN ARCADE
Posted by: Lightning on 19:15 CST :: 8/06/2010
Wonder Boy is Pete Ellison, aka Kid Whatever/Diskowarp/whatever.
Posted by: Daisuke Master on 00:09 CST :: 8/07/2010
A POCO NO MAMEZ
Posted by: Diamondback96 on 14:31 CST :: 8/09/2010
My first post here.
I don't know if I want my arcade to get this or Fiesta. Currently, they only have DDR. It used to be a Gameworks, so it's understandable (but there's no ITG either). I kind of want PRO 2, but... Fiesta has FIRE!
Posted by: Chris Lee on 15:17 CST :: 8/09/2010
You'll be happier with the REAL Pump It Up series.
But if they get pro, then I guess it's a substitute until a real Pump It Up mix is available for you. Remember, an imitation is never as good as the real thing.
Instead of making a new post, I'll just edit tis one.
Yeehaw, are you serious??? A D&B Actually got Pro? This better not be a trend or something. It's bad enough that some D&B's have DDR, but adding Pro is concerning.
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 15:17 CST :: 8/09/2010
Diamondback: If you're near Indy, the Dave and Busters has Pro 2 right now. I'm told a bunch of the IndyDDR crew are going there tonight.
Are you referring to the gameworks studio on the fourth floor of that mall near downtown Indy? If you are, the chances of them getting any type of pump at all are slim to none considering it's a Nickles & Dimes location now.
Posted by: Lightning on 18:23 CST :: 8/09/2010
"Remember, an imitation is never as good as the real thing."
Exactly what are you trying to say by this? It IS an OFFICIAL PUMP MIX. It's a localized release, just like how ITG or, hell, DDR past Extreme was.
Diamondback: Go check it out of you're close to a location and, if you like it, go for it. Personally, I like it much more than any other type of release, let alone the usability and whatnot make it, to me, a much more valuable release.
Fiesta has about 8 locations in the US, last I heard, if that is any indication as to how people are satisfied with it.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 18:30 CST :: 8/09/2010
Pump Pro is not an official mix. It was allowed to be created by Andamiro, but not a real Pump mix.
Imitation isn't the right word for it, I guess. Half-assed reproduction is more like it.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 18:31 CST :: 8/09/2010
I can't really defend him calling it an "imitation", but it is not in any way an official Pump mix. Pro was a spinoff, and Pro 2 is essentially a completely independent game whose only tie to the Korean-developed series is a handful of songs and a title.
The two games are as different, if not more so, than ITG2 and Extreme were, so it makes sense to desire one over the other.
It's not a "localized release" (like Premiere through Premiere 3 were) because it's headed by a completely independent development team with essentially no ties to the original development of the series.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 18:38 CST :: 8/09/2010
Pro was never an official Pump mix. It got the "green light" by Andamiro, but really, it was a completely different game made by a completely different company in order to satiate deprived ITG players. And Pro 2 is a new version of that game. Pro is in NO WAY a continuation of the Pump series.
Understand that we don't have anything against your liking Pro. Just don't call it Pump it Up. It is not the same game. Even the Pro developers understand that.
Posted by: PaRtYbOy on 21:38 CST :: 8/09/2010
I think that's just an indication of an shitty economy.
Posted by: Lightning on 00:22 CST :: 8/10/2010
Pro and Pro 2 have far more than that, so "the economy" is no reason for that.
"Pro is in NO WAY a continuation of the Pump series."
I didn't say that, did I?
Pro is an official pump mix. If you disagree, go yell at Andamiro. It's on their product page. Seems a little odd that a "non official mix" would be on the official page, eh?
Posted by: PaRtYbOy on 00:35 CST :: 8/10/2010
Pro has been around a lot longer than Fiesta. And last time I heard, there was 4 or 5 beta locations for Pro 2, and those (most of them) now have the completed version.
The main reason for Fiesta not being "popular" in the US is the economy, not because Pro and Pro 2 are better.
And saying it's an official mix is the same as saying it is a continuation of the Pump series, so yes, you did technically say that.
Not trying to being a dick or anything, just speaking my mind, as is everyone else who is talking about this.
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 01:18 CST :: 8/10/2010
Look Lightning, if all you're gonna do is troll about Pro, please don't feel compelled to stay here.
Posted by: luciusxx on 03:14 CST :: 8/10/2010
I actually tried Pro 2.
Too much pasar-malam techno >.<
Nothing really caught my attention except for that one very cute song..
Can't remember the name, but the BGA was cute, the music, too.
But that's all.
Not my cup of tea, Pro 2, but I wouldn't say it's a failure..
Just missing something =x
Posted by: FSX on 05:16 CST :: 8/10/2010
I realize that I was part of the Pump it Up Pro debate nonsense in the past, but now it's just annoying.
Anyways, I'd just like to play any Pump game other than NX.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 08:04 CST :: 8/10/2010
There's a difference between a producer and a developer.
Andamiro, as a publisher, is the sole force in enforcing that Pro has "Pump" in its title, merely to enhance its repertoire of products. Nexcade, the succesor of Freevolt, are the Korean-based developer of the original Pump series. Andamiro just wants to make a profit as a publisher, while the original series maintains the original visionary objective of the main Pump It Up series. Pro is its own product, and the only reason it shares songs and the word "Pump" in its product title, is due to Andamiro having control over 5-panel-based dance game products.
Trust me - Pro 2 and Fiesta are in essence competing products, despite being published by the same company.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 10:39 CST :: 8/10/2010
What I want to know is, what role did Andamiro have on ITG2? I remember when I first started playing, I saw the Andamiro name on it. Now, at this time, I haven't played Pump in about 3 years, so seeing Andamiro brought back memories, but I didn't see any reference to Pump at all. So, what role did Andamiro have in ITG2?
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 12:41 CST :: 8/10/2010
You see Pump It Up and Andamiro logos on ITG2 dedicabs because RoXoR went to andamiro for help with cabinet building.
Posted by: Thanh on 14:21 CST :: 8/14/2010
Dawgs in da house routine. Basically, it sets one player up to bend down and then hit rolls while bent down and then the other player is supposed to "smack dat ass."
Posted by: luciusxx on 14:28 CST :: 8/14/2010
But not quite =/
I wanted to see them ramming into each other so badly xD
Posted by: Nico on 16:41 CST :: 8/14/2010
I'm a bit confused about a few things about this game...
1. Do all new songs have actual BGAs? (I mean, the GoshaDole animations of Deadbeat Boyfriend, Oh Oh Oh Sexy Vampire, and UFO Catcher are in, but are they the only ones?)
2. Do all Pro 1 songs (And Pro 2 ones for the matter...) have new Routine steps?
Posted by: Thanh on 17:32 CST :: 8/14/2010
(cpubasic13 posting here, sorry Thanh)
1. Songs have scripted BGAs just like ITG2. The best part about this is how well they are actually scripted and how you don't need to adjust the brightness at all.
2. Not all songs have Routine steps. I would say 25% of the game has them. This may sound bad but when you have routines such as Gargoyle, Pink Fuzzy Bunnies, and Dawgs In The House, you won't notice at all. I know Monkey Fingers and Mr. Larpus got Routines, and a few of the Pro 1 songs had routines (Move It, Groove It is FANTASTIC).
I will post more later on my account because I have a lot to say about how incredible this game is.
(now I won't be posting under his account again, but borrowing a laptop he was using while he was in the restroom. -cpu )
Posted by: cpubasic13 on 20:42 CST :: 8/14/2010
Now I get to shit on everyone's Anti-Pro parade.
Keep in mind that of the main PIU line songs, there were no NX2-Fiesta songs period within the songlist. There were 7 K-Pop songs in total due to licensing I'm sure. All the Banya songs that were in the first Pro remained, some with Routines (Mr. Larpus, Monkey Fingers, Turkey March).
Now before you all bitch about how I am a Pro 2 fanboy for whatever reason, I have more of a reason to be than you do for Fiesta. The developers actually care about what they were producing, listening to what the players wanted, and providing much quality entertainment with what they had.
Gauntlet features nothing but NEW charts for songs alongside exclusive songs like Z -The New Legend- and full versions of a few songs (both of Vospi's songs got fulls). Progressive rules of course.
And then the songlist. After playing through much of the songlist I felt compelled to play a lot of these songs many times. The quality of the charts with the quality of the songs were incredibly GREAT. Out of the charts I played I don't think I was disappointed with any of them. The song choices ranged from stuff from Diskowarp (which is great for both parties) to bubblegum pop to a lot more hardcore stuff as well alongside very eccentric choices (there were at least 2 songs that were celtic, one of which was a 15). While they all didn't have exclusive BGAs I am very glad they didn't waste time trying to get those done. By doing so I'm sure they would have not done a whole lot of what they ended up doing anyway. The BGA scripting is very well done, moreso than ITG2 ever had, and the BGAs weren't so damn annoyingly in the way.
I'm going to be perfectly honest with you: Pro 2 is better than Fiesta. I think the fact they took what made Pro 1 horrible, fixed those problems, and focused around having fun than trying to be a circlejerk to a specific artist was very welcoming. I anticipate anything that comes out of the Pro team moreso than I expect Nexcade to ever do now if Fiesta is any indication. Really, no stepchart edits, patches, or forcing bullshit restrictions for those without USBs?
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 01:17 CST :: 8/15/2010
Did I suggest that I would disagree with you on any of those counts? They're all true. I actually really admire Pro 2 for going the extra mile in the way that it does, and I think in every way it's a much better product than Pro 1; not just technically or content-wise, but morally. And it's definitely not Pump it Up at all--it's a completely different product. If you looked earlier in the thread you'd see that I'm really happy with how they're labeling it differently and calling it a different product. It's finally starting to develop its own identity as a game.
This game has a lot of merits and you're perfectly free to like it as much as you do. Pro 2 itself does not bother me--I just get annoyed when people compare apples to oranges by calling it "Pump it Up".
Bottom line is: I didn't say anything against Pro 2 itself as a game. I haven't played Pro 2 yet and I do suspect that I'll like it if I play it. Whether or not I'll like it better than Fiesta is very iffy, since I personally really like Fiesta's soundtrack and charts combined with the general PIU style, but I already admire the game for being what it is on an initial glance.
Posted by: valius on 03:15 CST :: 8/15/2010
Well, technically, Fiesta has patches via USB, so I'm confused about why that's being used as a complaint.
The only thing I really can say is that assuming everyone will love the music choices in Pro 2 more than Fiesta is a sweeping generalization... if anything because it's all subjective. The music in both games appeals to different audiences, and it just seems silly to assume one's superiority over the other. It's like saying some genres are OBJECTIVELY better than others, and that just comes off wrong. (I DO agree though that Pro 2's songlist IS better than Pro 1's, IMO)
The charts are also a subjective matter too. IMO, it's a mixed bag from what I've seen in beta, which is why I'm very curious to see some final charts soon.
Nexcade is an enigma to me sometimes (and makes the most random decisions), but, unless Nexcade is a vacuum of some kind, it seems they're very involved with the Korean players, with some of the charts in Fiesta being from Korean players and with the initial playtests of each new mix all being done in Korea. I would think the reason they don't communicate with us nearly as much is probably the language barrier and simply geographical issues. The Pro 2 team is here in this country AND speak the language we use, English, so, of course, we have easier access to them, and, thus, input with them. I think we can't assume that Nexcade isn't involved player base, just because they aren't that involved with OUR player base.
In any case... preferring Pro 2 to Fiesta is not reason enough to conclude that Pro 2 is better than Fiesta. And really, they are two different games catering to different audiences that just happen to use the same "controller." Using absolute statements is no better than the guy saying that "DDR > PIU" or "RB > all rhythm games ever"
Posted by: vyhd on 04:46 CST :: 8/15/2010
(had an account here since a while back, decided to clarify)
The point Lightning was trying to make is this: Nexcade and Fun In Motion are each contracted by Andamiro to produce 5-panel arcade dance games. The two lines have very different goals in mind, different features, and different target audiences, but Andamiro calls them both Pump It Up games.
If you don't like the naming, complain to Andamiro. They control the brand and decide what gets it and what doesn't. It's not really in our control. In the meantime, saying that Pro 2 isn't a Pump It Up game is asinine: Andamiro defines the brand, not Nexcade, and not the players. Trying to set that straight is hardly "trolling".
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 09:39 CST :: 8/15/2010
Both game are different enough to be judged on their own merits. I'd say Pro 2 is actually differentiated enough to be even further from its source than ITG was to DDR.
Posted by: Chris Lee on 09:51 CST :: 8/15/2010
Having "fuck Turkeyslam" as tags in your pro videos is very much like some 14 year old ddr player boasting over how "awesome" he is. It's sad. It's almost like you want the American version of Pump to do better than Pump it Up itself.
This shit is getting old. I don't care about pro, and I have no reason to, since I have the real thing to play. I have no idea where to even hear the music featured in the game. I admit, I have not heard much of the pro music, but what I have heard reminds me of the kiddie-pop/bland-techno tracks that ddr had (or has. haven't played in like 4 years). I'm sure not every song is like that, but if it's a majority, it would be dead embarrassing to play.
What setteled it for me was jboy. He was one of the best Pump players ever. Had his own machine, had so much talent and potential. Then he got pro. After a while, he straight up quit playing and sold his machine. I'm not saying that pro MADE him quit, but he quit after playing pro. It's suspicious. I don't want to see the pro bug infect other real Pump players. I don't want Pump to view America even lower than they already do, because they think we prefer pro to real Pump. They need to know that pro is third-string. It's a last ditch effort in keeping yourself in the stepper mindset. There will never be a WPF featuring pro, or even a USPF. I also don't want to hear of arcades downgrading to pro thinking it was a real Pump upgrade.
It'll be a matter of time before the whole pro embarrassment will be gone, and we can stick to just complaining about normal Pump and how much they fuck up, but still produce a great product.
The pro team needs to create their own fucking game. Their own name, their own pad design (not changing the look of the pannels, but changing the entire pad design). I want them to become the third major stepper game on their own. They need to stop holding the hand of ddr and Pump. I don't care if they have some of the best charts ever made, if they can't be original, then there's no hope.
I'm getting sick of all this shit. If they want to be lazy and keep the Pump look, then they need to do better. And one thing that has always bothered me, and still does, is how small the friggin arrows are. Do you see how much space is wasted in between the arrows and both edges of the screen? Do they make it hard to see on purpose? Whatever. I'm basically worrying about how disadvantaged other people are. If they're happy with mediocracy, then I guess i'm sorta happy for them. If ITG didn't fuck up and get sued by Konami, then we wouldn't be worrying about this bull.
One more quick thing. ITG was sued because of using old ddr cabs, right? But Andamiro was helping them build cabs. So, if they had help building new cabs, then why did they even use old ddr cabs? Homegrown American laziness?
Posted by: luciusxx on 10:31 CST :: 8/15/2010
Singapore's having a Pro2 tournament on the 21st of August, FML
They have a Pro2 tourney, but not a Fiesta one >.>
And I haven't even played most of the charts.
This feels so one-sided, oh, well.
Gonna' try and win via sight-read alone.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 18:04 CST :: 8/15/2010
It's because we're an irrelevant market. We bring nothing to the table as far as sales are concerned. Also, AM has already admitted that they've dismissed our market in favor of Pro.
If it weren't for Dave & Buster's, the US essentially wouldn't have any copies of the game.
So bring on the Pro 2 I guess. wooo
If you read his post correctly, he does, due to how the developers of Pro 2 care more than Nexcade right now. I can't really argue with that, honestly.
I do find the "fuck turkeyslam" thing unusual considering I'm not really hating on Pro 2, since they're finally taking baby steps to being completely independent, I'm only complaining about its marketing.
No it won't. Pro and regular Pump are dying the same miserable death. Also, I'm not sure it's a matter of laziness that they're keeping the Pump name, it's that Andamiro is a FUCKING RETARDED publisher and that they probably wouldn't support it otherwise, because to them, it'll never be anything but "the US version of Pump". it fills the niche that caters to their indifference about our market perfectly.
Also wow, haha, you're more hateful about Pro than I was three years ago.
Posted by: Lightning on 21:00 CST :: 8/15/2010
" have no idea where to even hear the music featured in the game. I admit, I have not heard much of the pro music, but what I have heard reminds me of the kiddie-pop/bland-techno tracks that ddr had (or has. haven't played in like 4 years). I'm sure not every song is like that, but if it's a majority, it would be dead embarrassing to play."
Please see: < http://www.piupro.com/page/arcade/pump-it-up-pro-2/#song_list >
"After a while, he straight up quit playing and sold his machine."
So someone can't sell off something they own maybe, heaven forbid, due to financial reasons or other reasoning?
"So, if they had help building new cabs, then why did they even use old ddr cabs? Homegrown American laziness?"
ITG1 didn't have the ability of having dedicated, custom cabinets built for it. It was new in the scene and didn't have the backing as it did when ITG2 rolled around.
"And one thing that has always bothered me, and still does, is how small the friggin arrows are. Do you see how much space is wasted in between the arrows and both edges of the screen?"
The reason the arrows look smaller is just because of keeping proper aspect ratios on FX cabinets. I promise you, the arrows are the exact same size as normal pump is (the arrows are 64 pixels in size @ 640x480 (the NX/2/A noteskins are using the same bitmaps from their related pump games and aren't scaled any differently at all)). Classic pump games do NOT take widescreen cabinets into account and simply stretch the image on FX machines. We, instead, actually scale it properly so you don't have ugly image distortion. Also, it's a known fact that having stuff stretched horizontally give the illusion that things are moving at a different speed then if they were at the original size. Go look at IIDX.
Posted by: delrio on 22:15 CST :: 8/15/2010
His retirement video came off as extremely snotty. I seem to recall mentioning he didn't see the point in the game, as if having fun isn't a good reason to do anything anymore. The difference I've noted between fans of the classic Pump series and Pro is that the classic Pumpers, no matter what difficulty they play it at, are in it for the fun.
Pump was never supposed to be the AAA dick-wagging competition that DDR is.
Posted by: Lightning on 22:19 CST :: 8/15/2010
Seems like things like the World Pump Festival changed that years ago, imho.
Edit: Just watched "the jBoy video", seems moreso that he was upset with Nexcade's stuff, but regardless... holy crap that video is stuck up. :/
Posted by: the_peacemaker on 22:40 CST :: 8/15/2010
Yeah JBoy is seriously an example of elitism at its worst. No one has to love any rhythm game in particular to see that.
Posted by: valius on 01:08 CST :: 8/16/2010
Well, the players in WPF aren't the only type of players in the community... IMO, the loose timing and scoring of the game seems to have the added benefit of not having people look down upon you for feeling accomplished as a lvl 13 no-bar player vs. a lvl 25 no-bar player like some of the top players are. Granted, Fiesta does NOW reward you for FPCs and FCs, so the game might cater a little more to the "FPC everything" type of players now, but the timing hasn't reached DDR or ITG levels of strictness. As far as I know, the PIU community here doesn't REALLY have the reputation of scorewhoring elitism that tends to be associated with the DDR and ITG communities, so that has to mean something... (however, that certainly doesn't mean elitists don't exist for PIU, because that would clearly be a lie :p)
And yeah, the JBoy video is terrible :\ I don't know if it's Nexcade-specific... I'd actually say the state of the tournament scene was the biggest factor, since it looks like neither Pro nor NX1-NX2 were enough to keep his interest in the game as a whole.
Btw, Lightning, are you one of the Pro 2 specific noteskin designers? (If you are, I think the Pro 2 noteskins look spiffy )
Posted by: Lightning on 01:47 CST :: 8/16/2010
I did theme work, along with most of the BGA scripting, some BG graphics, and most of the noteskin work (I modeled/textured the 3D skins, ported NX/2/A, and whatnot with Chris/Glenn tweaking and optimizing stuff)
Well, we actually did do some stuff that allowed for a more fun, open experience this time around. Routine mode has failing completely disabled (aside from 30 misses, I believe), and also failing is completely disabled on your first round to give people more opportunities to try something new or to simply have fun with it.
Do we even know the exact sizes of Pump's timing windows? I'm rather curious myself.
Posted by: FSX on 06:08 CST :: 8/16/2010
Pump actually does (or used to) timing based on y distance, meaning that slower songs had easier timing and faster songs had harder timing.
Posted by: Turkeyslam on 06:24 CST :: 8/16/2010
Yep, and it was pretty insanely obvious too. Songs like Midnight Blue played with a timing window the size of a planet while She Likes Pizza had the timing window worse than the hardest setting you could set on Stepmania.
I believe it changed in Premiere 2 when the step format changed from NOT to STX.
Posted by: FSX on 09:14 CST :: 8/16/2010
I thought it was at least like that through Prex 3. Guess I was wrong.
Posted by: Lightning on 14:07 CST :: 8/16/2010
Oh WOW, that's rather interesting. For comparison, Pro's windows are as follows:
Posted by: Yeehaw McKickass on 15:50 CST :: 8/16/2010
JBoy getting mostly out of the game and selling his machine was also partially a product of him not liking the way NX2 went (he thought it felt more like a home game than anything else) and being out of things to do with Pro 1. He still plays a little bit, but he's nowhere near the same obessive level he was at when he had the machine.
Modern pump's timing windows are static, but variable depending on judgement settings in the operator menu or if HJ/XJ are active. I play with HJ on pretty much constantly.
Posted by: visuallitez on 03:54 CST :: 8/29/2010
where i can download pump pro 2 ??
and i looking for fiesta song >__<
Posted by: FSX on 05:06 CST :: 8/29/2010
You can't download Pro 2 right now and you might never be able to download it. Fiesta songs are available here.
Posted by: Arturo on 11:22 CST :: 9/07/2010
Pro 2 is officially released now:
< http://coinoptoday.com/jtest....temid=1 >